Monday, February 8, 2010

In which anonymous people teach me a lesson

When I opened posting here to anyone I expected anonymous posters. What I didn't expect was two anonymous people commenting on one post, both telling me I'm wrong. In truth, I had to go back and read what I wrote because I had no idea what they were referring to, it was an old post. In fact it was the post when I mentioned Michelle Duggar was expecting baby 19, which has since been born via C-section much too early due to complications with the pregnancy.
In that post I pointed out that the Duggars are part of the Quiverfull movement, which is noted for male dominance of their woman, mostly by forcing the women into multiple pregnancies and isolating them from society. Much the same way the Fundamentalist sect of the Mormon Church does, but that's neither here nor there.
My commenters apparently didn't understand that I was criticizing the Quiverfull movement not Christianity at large (I do that in other posts, why bother there?) I was told I was pitiful for criticizing them, and honestly, whatever. I do not agree with what they are doing and I know from experience that even the most abused woman can look happy. After all, not all abuse if hitting people. And I wasn't exactly putting them down, after all it is their choice to do this insane thing, no matter how much I disagree with it. I am, however, expressing extreme dislike and sympathy for Michelle's body at this point. It obviously can't keep doing this. The fact they want to try for 20 worries me greatly. At this point she has a very real possibility of dying during the pregnancy and taking the baby with her.
I was also told that I was told lies and Christian women are not "supressed". First off, no they are not. They would be Oppressed. There is a difference. Also, no, not all Christian women are oppressed. Quiverfull women are. And I really haven't been told "lies" about Christianity as a whole. I was American Baptist once (the same denomination as Fred Clarke, FYI. Not crazy person Baptist). I decided not to be Christian anymore because it wasn't a fit for me. I was called elsewhere. It happens.
I really hope these people tell commenting. Especially the one who claimed she was in the military and couldn't spell for shit. That one was fun!
I'm really glad I opened comments.


  1. Of course I can't know if women who profess to be happy in the quiverful movement are really happy, but I suspect some of them really are. The problem I think is that quiverful beliefs do not afford protection for women whose husbands take advantage of the system. Just like I know of churches that do well with a relatively authoritarian structure. Maybe fine if nobody takes advantage of it, but it is setting the stage for failure when a leader comes along who would seek to abusively control the congregation, people have no recourse then but to submit or get the heck out, and getting the heck out isn't always an easy option.

    Either way, just because a system can work in some cases does not mean it is a good idea.

  2. One of the things that bugs me the most about the Quiverfull movement is that it is one of the movements in the Evengelical church that was specifically designed to lure men back into the church. That is one of the reasons why it is set up the way it is, the man has unlimited and unchecked authority over his family. He can literally do anything he wants to and with them. Now, I'm sure there are men out there that don't take advantage of that, but that set up is just too much for a certain kind of person to ignore.
    Kathryn Joyce's fantastic book Quiverfull talks to all kinds of women within the movement and some of them are quite happy. However she address the question of, are they happy because they are happy with their life, or are the happy because they literally know no alternative. Some of these women have lived their entire lives in the movement and are geared from birth to be a "helpmeet" to some guy her dad picks out.
    The whole thing gives me the screaming heebie-jeebies. Like you said, when you're options are submit or get out, and getting out isn't an easy option, you submit and make the best of it.

  3. I haven't read the book you mention, only about it, sounds interesting. I never thought of quiverfull being a way to get men back into evangelical churches. I would have thought is was just a push for continuation of fundamentalist / dominionist values.

    I met a fundamentalist baptist family recently, parents and sisters of a friend who is more progressive in her beliefs now. They seemed so, normal. But then I was talking to my friends brother-in-law whose son was in college and he mentioned their plans for his daughters. They had plans to go to some college in the mid west to, as he put it, "become missionaries wives or pastor's wives." The daughter smiled pleasently. Wow, you can go to college for that? I thought, what if it doesn't work out as you have planned, what if she needs to have a job someday. Or hey, what if she *wants* to have a job someday. It seemed so sad that they might not get a chance to look outside the bubble on their way to be "helpmeets". I was rather dumbfounded and couldn't really say anything. Depressing.


All comments are now not moderated. Have at it folks! Don't make me regret it.