Wednesday, August 26, 2009

The enemy of my enemy

Pagans and atheists tend to have a pretty good, if not a bit weird, working relationship. After all, we have a lot in common, since we are both enemies of the Right. The Right will change tactics sometimes and after years of going after one will switch to the other. Sometimes they bring in a third party (Islam!) and surprise everyone, but as a rule pagans and atheists are always on the chopping block.
So, we tend to get along. And as long as the extreme elements of each side don't get involved everything works out great. Each side has it's nutters. We have the really vocal element which is made up of newbies, the martyr complex people, and the older people who have been doing this so long they don't care. The latter people are actually pretty cool, and frankly I wish they would speak up more but they tend to get drowned out by the first two. As a rule pagans are passive people, and the more aggressive elements tend toward the martyr complex side.
Atheists have a group that do want to try to phase out religion, not as bad as the Right seem to want us to think, you know no thugs or anything, seems like a long term, wouldn't it be nice, kind of thing. And good for them, who knows what will happen in the future? They also have the "religious people are stupid" group (their answer to martyr complex people). They are hard to deal with, just like our guys are, so we just avoid them. Honestly, most pagans do just ignore what those people say because they want to fight.
So both sides, like any group of people, have crazies, and yet as a rule we get along. I have yet to be part of a large pagan group online that doesn't have at least 1 atheist in a place of moderation. So how can we get along, other than the fact that one side of this relationship is really passive? Because we have to. When you get routinely attacked for any period of time you take all the help you can get. You do what you have to.
You may have noticed that the Right isn't too keep on taking support for other, more liberal, elements within the faith. This is their own faith and they don't help. When you can go it alone you probably aren't under any kind of serious attack. If you guys were honestly afraid that us pagans and atheists are going to come after you and take away Christmas or Jesus or Easter or whatever you probably would be joining forces with someone. Anyone. Safety in numbers.
One more reason why I don't buy the whole idea that Christians (Religious Right Christians, that is) are being oppressed in any way.
Spare me, people.


  1. I, too, have been struck by the odd alliance of pagans and atheists. I hope I never offend you in my posts. In truth, I like belief, I just don't have it. Pagans never, ever try to shove Thor or Zeus or the Earth Mother down my throat, nor do pagans ever try to remove science from the classroom or tell me what to do with my uterus. I like that.

  2. Nah, I don't get offended by what you say at all. You don't try to convince people that having faith is wrong, and I like that. See, common ground.
    The other thing that strikes me about the pagan atheist relationship is that if we can do, why can't everyone else find common ground? We aren't two groups of special people, anyone can do this. People need to try.

  3. Hi
    I also have no trouble with faith, even Christian faith. I think faith can be a valuable asset and a powerful tool. I just don't think that it is neccessary that whatever you have faith in be real. To me gods are not, to you they are. This is all wonderful. I only object to religion when it is used as a weapon against others. Used as a tool for ones own benefit it is just fine.


All comments are now not moderated. Have at it folks! Don't make me regret it.